An appeal to all Sikhs and other religious please do not let hate to consume you
so much that you should misinterpret Gurbani or other religious texts to fulfill your means. If you are a government plant, communists or Crypto Jews
put in to infiltrate Sikhs or any other religion from within, then the only thing I have to say to
you is that you are not going to live forever.
One day you will meet your Creator and will be judged for you
misdeeds. When we destroy the Guru Nanak
Dev Ji’s Sikhi from within, it makes job for Demons like Captain Ajit Vadakayil
very easy. When I read what Ajit
Vadakayil had to say I went to the sites of SGPC, SAD, Delhi Parbhandak
Committee (since I live in USA) so that they would know and file an FIR against him. I got no response back. Therefore, I decided to start this blog.
In my last blog http://exposingvadakayil.blogspot.com/2018/07/danav-ajit-vadakayil-lies-about-vithal.html
I was asked by a reader why did I mention that Naamdev’s swami was Krishna (as
we all know that Bhagat Dhana’s Thakur was Lord Vishnu), when I showed him that
WAHEGURU word is made up of avatars such as Vasudev(Vishnu)/Hari Krishna/Gobind in the form of Nanak/Rama, a gentleman from Siksandsikhi blog came and
started a discussion to prove me wrong about Gurbani.
I would not call him a
plant or crypto Jew, because his heart bled too after hearing what Ajit Vadakayil
has to say and started his youtube channel.
I would say he is misguided and I pray to GOD to guide him back to true
Sikhi, not sikhi as left by British of hate and divide. We all are equal, there is no superior or
inferior. If we say we are superior,
then what is the difference of wearing a Janeu and Gatra. As humans we all mistake
and it is the right of GOD to judge us and lead us back to the right path. We are HIS children and HE is our Father and
Mother and we should always ask for HIS forgiveness.
First, the one formless GOD does not
have a name. He is known by his virtues and attributes,
Guru Granth Sahib calls him by the names of HIS Avatars because there is no
difference between GOD and HIS Avatars even though his Avatars are within the
rules of Maya. Some places in Guru Granth Sahib those Avatars are mentioned too and it is describing those Avatars and not the Formless GOD.
How do you describe a GOD that does not have any forms, Shri Guru Granth Sahib describes HIM by the forms of HIS Avatars. Lotus Feet, Lotus Eyes, Beautiful Hair, 4 Armed is all the forms of HIS Avatars which is used to describe the Formless GOD. Again Guru Granth Sahib describes the GOD in some places and HIS Avatars in other places.
There is no difference between Formless GOD (Nirgun) and HIS Avatars (Sargun) they all are one and same
Guru Nanak Dev Ji states we should all pray to the one formless GOD, EK OMKAR (ONKAR). But he does not mention that we should ignore his Avatars and say negative things about them. Another word used for GOD is Paarbrahm, which means beyond Brahma. Vedas gives name such as Brahman and Maha Visnu.
Vedas states to get to the Absolute Truth (Formless God), one has to go through Truth (Sattva, Vishnu)
In India there were either Vaishnavs (followers of Vishnu) or Shivaites (followers of Shiva). All of the bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib were Vaishnavs.
In Sukhmani Sahib Guru Arjan Dev Ji states:
The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased. He dwells apart from Maya. Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards. Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav; he has no desire for the fruits of his labors. He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory. Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe. He is kind to all creatures. He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status.
How do you describe a GOD that does not have any forms, Shri Guru Granth Sahib describes HIM by the forms of HIS Avatars. Lotus Feet, Lotus Eyes, Beautiful Hair, 4 Armed is all the forms of HIS Avatars which is used to describe the Formless GOD. Again Guru Granth Sahib describes the GOD in some places and HIS Avatars in other places.
There is no difference between Formless GOD (Nirgun) and HIS Avatars (Sargun) they all are one and same
Guru Nanak Dev Ji states we should all pray to the one formless GOD, EK OMKAR (ONKAR). But he does not mention that we should ignore his Avatars and say negative things about them. Another word used for GOD is Paarbrahm, which means beyond Brahma. Vedas gives name such as Brahman and Maha Visnu.
Vedas states to get to the Absolute Truth (Formless God), one has to go through Truth (Sattva, Vishnu)
In India there were either Vaishnavs (followers of Vishnu) or Shivaites (followers of Shiva). All of the bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib were Vaishnavs.
In Sukhmani Sahib Guru Arjan Dev Ji states:
The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased. He dwells apart from Maya. Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards. Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav; he has no desire for the fruits of his labors. He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory. Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe. He is kind to all creatures. He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status.
Remember Vishnu
again and again; By remembering Vishnu you will never suffer defeat. Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Pg 342
On Guru Nanak Dev Ji's second journey, he went to Mathura and was invited to watch the play called Krishna leela. Lord Krishna appears dancing with milkmaids, stealing their clothes while they were bathing, and killing his uncle Kans. Guru Ji expressed his dissatification with ordinary people dressed up as Lord Krishna and Lord Rama and singing and dancing. He recited the following hymn as recorded on pg. 465 of Shri Guru Granth Sahib.
Vaaein Chaelae Nachan Gur Pair || Halaaein Faeranih Sir || Oudd Oudd Raavaa Jhaattai Paae || Vaekhai Lok Hasai Ghar Jaae || Rotteeaa Kaaran Poorehi Thaal || Aap Pashhaarrehi Dhharathee Naal || Gaavan Gopeeaa Gaavan Kaanh || Gaavan Seethaa Raajae Raam || Nirabho Nirankaar Sach Naam || Jaa Kaa Keeaa Sagal Jehaan || Saevak Saevehi Karam Charraao || Bhinnee Rain Jinhaa Man Chaao || Sikhee Sikhiaa Gur Veechaar || Nadharee Karam Laghaaeae Paar
The disciples play the music, and the gurus dance. They move their feet and roll their heads. The dust flies and falls upon their hair. Beholding them, the people laugh, and then go home. They beat the drums for the sake of bread. They throw themselves upon the ground. The milk-maids Sing, Krishna sings. Sita and King Rama Sings. The Lord is fearless and formless; His Name is True. The entire universe is His Creation. Those servants, whose destiny is awakened, serve the Lord. Their minds are filled with love for the Lord. Contemplating the Guru, I have been taught these
teachings; Granting His Grace, He carries His servants across.
Guru Ji states ordinary people,
for the sake of bread, portray themselves as Lord Krishna and Lord Rama. They are really disparaging the formless God,
who came on earth in the human form. This is not the way of showing love for the God.
One day while Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was holding a
congregation one of the Sikhs asked, “What type of incarnation was the first
Sikh Guru, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and were they independent and complete?”
According to Hindu belief there are many types of incarnations but for God there are six. These are the following; -
- Ansa Avtar
- Avesha Avtar
- Nit Avtar
- Namitak Avtar
- Pooran Avtar
- Pooran Tam Avtar
To this question Guru Gobind Singh Ji answered the following; -
1) Ansa Avtar is an incarnation of the Lord in the form of a righteous king who rules the people of his kingdom in accordance to the will of God. The people of the kingdom revere their ruler as God
2) Avesha Avtar is an incarnation or a divine form of God, which appears in order to please its devotee such as that of a statue drinking milk from Bhagat Namdev Ji. It is also the form of Parasram who was born without divine powers but acquired them later on in his life through devotion to God.
3) Nit Avtar is the form of God as a saint on earth. These are Sants, Mahapurkh, Brahmgiani, etc.
4) Namitak Avtar is the form of God that was assumed by Narsingh and Vaman. Narsingh came to the earth in order to protect his devotee Prahlad while Vaman came in order to deceive King Bali. After both had done their respected tasks they went back to heaven and never actually took birth on the earth.
5) Pooran Avtar is the incarnation that has 16 divine attributes and characteristics. Only Krishna has been born of this form.
6) Pooran Tam Avtar is regarded as that of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji as they came to the earth with the same powers as they had in heaven as the supreme Lord. They also came into the world already with knowledge and did not need to find any teachers, as they were already the one true master.
According to Hindu belief there are many types of incarnations but for God there are six. These are the following; -
- Ansa Avtar
- Avesha Avtar
- Nit Avtar
- Namitak Avtar
- Pooran Avtar
- Pooran Tam Avtar
To this question Guru Gobind Singh Ji answered the following; -
1) Ansa Avtar is an incarnation of the Lord in the form of a righteous king who rules the people of his kingdom in accordance to the will of God. The people of the kingdom revere their ruler as God
2) Avesha Avtar is an incarnation or a divine form of God, which appears in order to please its devotee such as that of a statue drinking milk from Bhagat Namdev Ji. It is also the form of Parasram who was born without divine powers but acquired them later on in his life through devotion to God.
3) Nit Avtar is the form of God as a saint on earth. These are Sants, Mahapurkh, Brahmgiani, etc.
4) Namitak Avtar is the form of God that was assumed by Narsingh and Vaman. Narsingh came to the earth in order to protect his devotee Prahlad while Vaman came in order to deceive King Bali. After both had done their respected tasks they went back to heaven and never actually took birth on the earth.
5) Pooran Avtar is the incarnation that has 16 divine attributes and characteristics. Only Krishna has been born of this form.
6) Pooran Tam Avtar is regarded as that of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji as they came to the earth with the same powers as they had in heaven as the supreme Lord. They also came into the world already with knowledge and did not need to find any teachers, as they were already the one true master.
and other sites along with some of the stories of Guru Nanak
Dev Ji states that he was a Vishnu Avatar.
What Guru Nanak Dev Ji did a normal human being cannot do.
My humble request to everyone please remove the shackles of religion and then read the bani, everything becomes crystal clear. Guru Ji’s bani is straight forward, we do not need to look into what does Guru Ji is trying to say or come up with our own interpretation. If there was some other meaning to it, Guru Ji would have provided those explanation.
Religions are curse of Kali Purush, Kalyug. It is a chain of slavery put around us to divide us and make us hate each other. Where there is hate, there is no GOD. Before Kalyug there were no religions, even at the time of Buddha in Kalyug there were no religions. When Guru Teg Bahadur Ji went to meet Auranzeb, Guru Ji tells Aurangzeb you want only one religion in Hindustan; there is going to be third religion. From this statement we can see there was no Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism or any other religions at that time. And we also know that British and Christian Missionaries had started to make inroads into India. Guru Gobind Singh Ji made Khalsa – Akaal Purak Ki Fauj - an army, not a religion.
Guru Ji’s were against religions. Guru Nanak Dev Ji states, “There is no Hindus, there is no Muslims.” God is Nirvair, without hatred. For HIM everyone is same and provide everyone equally. GOD does not have any religion, that is why Guru Nanak Dev Ji shunned all religions. Guru Arjan Dev Ji states, “Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.” Othe amla te hone ne navede kise nai teri jaat puchni meaning: On judgment day conclusions will be made on what you put into practice (karma), nobody will ask your Caste (or religion).
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/There_is_no_Hindu_and_no_Musalman
Don’t think of Vishnu, Ram, Krishna or any other Avatars of GOD as Hindu Deities. When you will start thinking like this, your prejudice and bias will come in the way.
When Lord Rama or Krishna came, there were no religions.
Vishnu Ji is known as Ra in Egypt, Zeus in Roman Greco, Abel in Christianity
Brahma who gave Vedas is known as Thoth in Egypt – who gave emerald tablets (from this came english word Taught/Thought; Seth in Christianity – who gave pillars of Seth
So what religion do they belong to – Hinduism? Egyptian? Christianity? Roman?
http://ekomkaronecreatorgod.blogspot.com/ start with the oldest blog.
Here is a full conversation with my responses:
From Reader
Hi,
Sir, I've one question for you. In gurbani, everything is said to be Waheguru, then why you said that specifically 'Krishan' was praised or worshipped?
Sir, I've one question for you. In gurbani, everything is said to be Waheguru, then why you said that specifically 'Krishan' was praised or worshipped?
My reply
Here is the meaning of VaHeGuRU by Bhai Gurdas Ji who wrote
Guru Granth Sahib while Guru Arjan Dev Ji dictated it:
VaHeGuRu starts with Va to remember Lord Vishnu
Va - Vasudev Avtar of Satyug (Golden Age) (over here I made a mistake by putting Vaman, Vasudev = Vishnu)
He - Hari Krishna Avtar of Treta (Brass Age)
Gu - Gobind in the form of Nanak Avtar of Kalyug (Dark Age)
Ru - Ram Chander Avtar of Dwapar (Silver Age)
Collectively it makes up names of 4 avatars of Lord Vishnu from 4 different Age.
There is in some places of Guru Granth Sahib Lord Krishna is mentioned specifically. You will not hear it in most Gurdwaras because they don't want people to know that Nirgun (Without form) is the same as Sargun (with form).
Per Science God is Atom and Lord Vishnu is Proton - the positive aspect of God. Brahma is Neutron (Neutral) and Shiva is Electron (Negative). But they all are Avatars of GOD. According to Guru Govind Singh there are 24 Avatars of GOD out of which 11 is Lord Vishnu and 10 of his Avatars. Sun and Moon are GOD's Avatar too. Book of Revelation mentions 24 Elders John sees when he goes to meet GOD.
VaHeGuRu starts with Va to remember Lord Vishnu
Va - Vasudev Avtar of Satyug (Golden Age) (over here I made a mistake by putting Vaman, Vasudev = Vishnu)
He - Hari Krishna Avtar of Treta (Brass Age)
Gu - Gobind in the form of Nanak Avtar of Kalyug (Dark Age)
Ru - Ram Chander Avtar of Dwapar (Silver Age)
Collectively it makes up names of 4 avatars of Lord Vishnu from 4 different Age.
There is in some places of Guru Granth Sahib Lord Krishna is mentioned specifically. You will not hear it in most Gurdwaras because they don't want people to know that Nirgun (Without form) is the same as Sargun (with form).
Per Science God is Atom and Lord Vishnu is Proton - the positive aspect of God. Brahma is Neutron (Neutral) and Shiva is Electron (Negative). But they all are Avatars of GOD. According to Guru Govind Singh there are 24 Avatars of GOD out of which 11 is Lord Vishnu and 10 of his Avatars. Sun and Moon are GOD's Avatar too. Book of Revelation mentions 24 Elders John sees when he goes to meet GOD.
Sikhsandsikhi
wrote:
Sat Shri Akaal Baljit Singh ji,
Saw someone commenting on our YouTube channel with the link of this blog. So thought of visiting it.
This post of yours is misleading, specially the comment that you just made.
The vaar that you are talking about is to tell how the name Waheguru comes into existence, not to talk about the incarnations of Vishnu. First thing. The second thing is there’s no word as ‘Vaman’ in that pauri, that means you are not the person who is good in Punjabi (no offence) or you just copied and pasted this from some website or blog.
Now comes the four words: Vasudev, Hari, Gobind, and Ram. All the four words are not to tell the incarnations of Vishnu but to talk about Waheguru. The words that are said are not about the incarnations but to tell what the people were meditating on at the time of those ages. If we do not know the meaning of Ram as Waheguru and Ram as incarnation of Vishnu, then we are already lost it.
And that ‘collectively’ that you mentioned makes me certain that you haven’t read gurbani because the avtaars of Vishnu/Brahma/Shivji are not above Waheguru or near Waheguru (and there are millions of Vishnu/Brahma/Shivji and other deities in the universe.) So Bhai Gurdas ji wouldn’t have mentioned that to emphasize that Vishnu (a deity) is above all. Your interpretation is so wrong.
I know that Krishan’s name comes in gurbani and that’s because he’s the jot of Waheguru too. We made a video too you can check it out. It’s about Ram - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxCrLSLwR-g
My intention here is not to hurt your perception or understanding of gurbani but to clear the things which are misleading. As your blog is to expose Vadakayil, but that doesn’t give you, no offence again, the free will to misinterpretate the verses of gurbani for your own benefits. And I am sure that exposing someone requires not less than a reconnoitre of all the posts of the blogs or books written by them. I am doing the same, and it takes so much efforts. But that’s a different thing.
Next you talked about Chobis Avtaar, and I’m so sure you’ve not even read that because if you’ve, you wouldn’t have written the incarnations of Vishnu and their linkage to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Chobis Avtaar and the whole bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji and Guru Granth Sahib ji breaks all the links that you are trying to make. Please read gurbani and listen to itehaas to know more. I’m not boasting that I know everything, no. But at least I try to understand the bani from Singhs and listen to the katha before my pen starts bleeding.
So, Baljit Singh ji, a very kind request to you. Please don’t try have a ‘linkage’ that many anti-panthic people have been doing for ages. And I will try to write an article about this vaar of Bhai Gurdas ji, so that there will not be any misunderstanding circling on the Internet.
Saw someone commenting on our YouTube channel with the link of this blog. So thought of visiting it.
This post of yours is misleading, specially the comment that you just made.
The vaar that you are talking about is to tell how the name Waheguru comes into existence, not to talk about the incarnations of Vishnu. First thing. The second thing is there’s no word as ‘Vaman’ in that pauri, that means you are not the person who is good in Punjabi (no offence) or you just copied and pasted this from some website or blog.
Now comes the four words: Vasudev, Hari, Gobind, and Ram. All the four words are not to tell the incarnations of Vishnu but to talk about Waheguru. The words that are said are not about the incarnations but to tell what the people were meditating on at the time of those ages. If we do not know the meaning of Ram as Waheguru and Ram as incarnation of Vishnu, then we are already lost it.
And that ‘collectively’ that you mentioned makes me certain that you haven’t read gurbani because the avtaars of Vishnu/Brahma/Shivji are not above Waheguru or near Waheguru (and there are millions of Vishnu/Brahma/Shivji and other deities in the universe.) So Bhai Gurdas ji wouldn’t have mentioned that to emphasize that Vishnu (a deity) is above all. Your interpretation is so wrong.
I know that Krishan’s name comes in gurbani and that’s because he’s the jot of Waheguru too. We made a video too you can check it out. It’s about Ram - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxCrLSLwR-g
My intention here is not to hurt your perception or understanding of gurbani but to clear the things which are misleading. As your blog is to expose Vadakayil, but that doesn’t give you, no offence again, the free will to misinterpretate the verses of gurbani for your own benefits. And I am sure that exposing someone requires not less than a reconnoitre of all the posts of the blogs or books written by them. I am doing the same, and it takes so much efforts. But that’s a different thing.
Next you talked about Chobis Avtaar, and I’m so sure you’ve not even read that because if you’ve, you wouldn’t have written the incarnations of Vishnu and their linkage to Guru Nanak Dev ji. Chobis Avtaar and the whole bani of Guru Gobind Singh ji and Guru Granth Sahib ji breaks all the links that you are trying to make. Please read gurbani and listen to itehaas to know more. I’m not boasting that I know everything, no. But at least I try to understand the bani from Singhs and listen to the katha before my pen starts bleeding.
So, Baljit Singh ji, a very kind request to you. Please don’t try have a ‘linkage’ that many anti-panthic people have been doing for ages. And I will try to write an article about this vaar of Bhai Gurdas ji, so that there will not be any misunderstanding circling on the Internet.
Gur Fateh
I responded back
to him
SikhsandSikhi,
Thank you for your precious comment, sorry for my mistake you are right Va is for Vasudev. Like you I do not know everything also, this is a constant learning cycle and within that cycle your perceptions change as you learn new things. I am just trying to learn too, but some of the people who do Kathas lead people to wrong direction too as they themselves do not fully understand the true meaning.
You got me wrong, I am not saying Lord Vishnu is above WAHEGURU. I am saying that Naamdev was a Bhagat of Krishna which is misinterpreted by some of Katha Vachiks. Just like Bhagat Dhanna made Lord Vishnu appear and do work for him.
Vishnu comes from WAHEGURU; he is an Avatar of WAHEGURU. The main force field is WAHEGURU and in the end, after the end of Kaliyug, everyone will merge into that force field, WAHEGURU, even Brahma Vishnu Shiva. Brahma Vishnu Shiva came from WAHEGURU and makes up the Three Gunas (Trinity).
You are right that there are millions of Brahma Vishnu Shiva as the whole universe is made up of Atoms. But there is one main Atom (Parmatma/God) which has one main Proton (Vishnu), one main Neutron (Brahma) and one main Electron (Shiva). We are made of Atoms too and we have Proton, Neutron and Electron too within us. So we have God (Atom) who is within us and we have Proton (Vishnu) which make us do good things, Neutron (Brahma) which make us do neither good nor bad, and we have electron (Shiva) too which make us do bad things. That is why you have good human beings, bad human beings or neutral human beings depending on what is strong with in them. This is true within nature too. Just as there is God within us, there is God around us too and that main God is running the whole universe we are just a fragments of him. Guru Arjan Dev Ji states He (GOD) is Nirgun and He (GOD) is Sargun.
I do understand this Vaar tells what people of those time where worshipping. But does it say that what those people were worshipping was wrong? If it is wrong then why does those names make up the word WAHEGURU.
Here is the correct Vaar
Satijugi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai |
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai |
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Sukhu Paavai |
In the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that remembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
Kalijugi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai |
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jugee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai |
The recitations of all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai |
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
Please don't follow British Sikhi which teaches Divide and Hate. Guru Ji's were against religions Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated There is no Hindu and there is no Muslim that is why he was able to see things with one eye without hate towards anyone. That is why Shri Guru Granth Sahib has Banis of Hindu Saints and Muslim Fakirs. That is why Allah, Govind, Keshav, Gopal name is included in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. I am 100% sure all of the Gurus were million times smarter than me. Why would they put those names if those name would cause a confusion for the readers.
As fas as Guru Nanak Dev Ji being a Avatar of Lord Vishnu. Please see the story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Kurukshetra where a pandit named Nanu read that Lord Vishnu will come as Nanak in Kaliyug and he started calling himself Nanak. Guru Nanak Dev Ji went there to show people that he is not the true Nanak.
Again sorry if I made a mistake as I am only a human and it was not done intentionally. I will look forward to your article.
Thank You Very Much.
Thank you for your precious comment, sorry for my mistake you are right Va is for Vasudev. Like you I do not know everything also, this is a constant learning cycle and within that cycle your perceptions change as you learn new things. I am just trying to learn too, but some of the people who do Kathas lead people to wrong direction too as they themselves do not fully understand the true meaning.
You got me wrong, I am not saying Lord Vishnu is above WAHEGURU. I am saying that Naamdev was a Bhagat of Krishna which is misinterpreted by some of Katha Vachiks. Just like Bhagat Dhanna made Lord Vishnu appear and do work for him.
Vishnu comes from WAHEGURU; he is an Avatar of WAHEGURU. The main force field is WAHEGURU and in the end, after the end of Kaliyug, everyone will merge into that force field, WAHEGURU, even Brahma Vishnu Shiva. Brahma Vishnu Shiva came from WAHEGURU and makes up the Three Gunas (Trinity).
You are right that there are millions of Brahma Vishnu Shiva as the whole universe is made up of Atoms. But there is one main Atom (Parmatma/God) which has one main Proton (Vishnu), one main Neutron (Brahma) and one main Electron (Shiva). We are made of Atoms too and we have Proton, Neutron and Electron too within us. So we have God (Atom) who is within us and we have Proton (Vishnu) which make us do good things, Neutron (Brahma) which make us do neither good nor bad, and we have electron (Shiva) too which make us do bad things. That is why you have good human beings, bad human beings or neutral human beings depending on what is strong with in them. This is true within nature too. Just as there is God within us, there is God around us too and that main God is running the whole universe we are just a fragments of him. Guru Arjan Dev Ji states He (GOD) is Nirgun and He (GOD) is Sargun.
I do understand this Vaar tells what people of those time where worshipping. But does it say that what those people were worshipping was wrong? If it is wrong then why does those names make up the word WAHEGURU.
Here is the correct Vaar
Satijugi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai |
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai |
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Sukhu Paavai |
In the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that remembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
Kalijugi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai |
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jugee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai |
The recitations of all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai |
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
Please don't follow British Sikhi which teaches Divide and Hate. Guru Ji's were against religions Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated There is no Hindu and there is no Muslim that is why he was able to see things with one eye without hate towards anyone. That is why Shri Guru Granth Sahib has Banis of Hindu Saints and Muslim Fakirs. That is why Allah, Govind, Keshav, Gopal name is included in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. I am 100% sure all of the Gurus were million times smarter than me. Why would they put those names if those name would cause a confusion for the readers.
As fas as Guru Nanak Dev Ji being a Avatar of Lord Vishnu. Please see the story of Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Kurukshetra where a pandit named Nanu read that Lord Vishnu will come as Nanak in Kaliyug and he started calling himself Nanak. Guru Nanak Dev Ji went there to show people that he is not the true Nanak.
Again sorry if I made a mistake as I am only a human and it was not done intentionally. I will look forward to your article.
Thank You Very Much.
Sikhsandsakhi
responded
Thank you, bhaji. It’s good to talk to you about it.
One thing that I missed to mention in the first comment was related to that ‘Atom’ and ‘Proton’ thing. I do no know if you’ve made it up or heard from someone or you’re intentionally bringing science into it to prove your point. I really have no idea. So I will leave that part. But I will say this that in this age many people are trying to mix science and religion to prove their points. I have heard many so-called preachers who’ll compare a belief with science and explain people that they’re rightly doing it. And it’s taking us to a place where people are getting brainwashed. Not going very far, we can take the example of this idiot Vadakayil. I think you might have read his many articles, he will mix science with his mumbo jumbo logic to prove his point.
ਦੇਵਾ ਪਾਹਨ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਤ ਜਨ ਕਸ ਨ ਤਰੇ ॥੧॥ (if Namdev ji was the follower of Krishan, why he mentioned ‘Ram’ here?)
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥ (Here, it’s not for Krishan ji, but Waheguru. If we say it’s for Krishan ji, that means that Guru Sahib said it directly to worship the deities. No. This’s wrong. And telling you the truth it’s the first time when I heard someone translating it to Krishna. I’ve heard people translating the word to Vishnu, which is true in few cases, but not when it comes to the representation of Waheguru.)
Yes, Waheguru is both Nirgun and Sargun, there’s no doubt about it. But it’s also written that all the deities are under Maaya, they’re not above Maaya. If they’re not, what’s the purpose of worshipping them? (I’m saying it from the perspective of Sikhism, if Hindus believe in that we shouldn’t have any problem with it. It’s their beliefs and ways of worshipping.)
Guru Sahib didn’t include the bani of bhagats to convey the message that they were believing in the worshipping of deities, no. They saw the jot of Waheguru. In Akaal Ustat, Guru Sahib said ‘tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi’ to say there’s nothing but One. That’s why the bani starts with Ik Oan(g)kaar.
Sorry, bhaji, I’m writing this big comment again. But it’s necessary. If there’s someone who’s reading your article, he should also read the long comments that you and I have made.
Now you mentioned that vaar. If, I don’t know if you follow Krishan ji or not, will come to that, you read the first line of vaar, it will clear many things. There was NO avatar of Vasudev in Satyug. Vasudev was the name of Krishan’s father, which was in Dvapar, not Satyug. So how the incarnation took place in Satyug?
Bhaji, my one question will clear everything that I want to know from you, but still I want to mention more things. Maybe at last will ask that question.
I don’t know what ‘British Sikhi’ or ‘Indian Sikhi’ is. I know only Sikhi, and not completely, will take so many decades to know everything. But will be trying till last breath. Your this comment, bhaji, is somewhat similar to what Vadakayil is doing. Bringing someone in the topic and then saying this’s their fault. His main hero is Rothschild, as you know. I am not following any British or Indian Sikhi. I am following what’s written. Simple. And I agree with you, bhaji, that no one should hate anyone especially because of their religion and country. I’ve said it several times in my videos and articles. But it doesn’t mean we should not distinguish between the beliefs of others and ours. No hatred is here but there’s a new religion which was started by Guru Nanak Dev ji, the vaar of Bhai Gurdas ji clearly mentioned it.
One thing that I missed to mention in the first comment was related to that ‘Atom’ and ‘Proton’ thing. I do no know if you’ve made it up or heard from someone or you’re intentionally bringing science into it to prove your point. I really have no idea. So I will leave that part. But I will say this that in this age many people are trying to mix science and religion to prove their points. I have heard many so-called preachers who’ll compare a belief with science and explain people that they’re rightly doing it. And it’s taking us to a place where people are getting brainwashed. Not going very far, we can take the example of this idiot Vadakayil. I think you might have read his many articles, he will mix science with his mumbo jumbo logic to prove his point.
ਦੇਵਾ ਪਾਹਨ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਤ ਜਨ ਕਸ ਨ ਤਰੇ ॥੧॥ (if Namdev ji was the follower of Krishan, why he mentioned ‘Ram’ here?)
ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥ (Here, it’s not for Krishan ji, but Waheguru. If we say it’s for Krishan ji, that means that Guru Sahib said it directly to worship the deities. No. This’s wrong. And telling you the truth it’s the first time when I heard someone translating it to Krishna. I’ve heard people translating the word to Vishnu, which is true in few cases, but not when it comes to the representation of Waheguru.)
Yes, Waheguru is both Nirgun and Sargun, there’s no doubt about it. But it’s also written that all the deities are under Maaya, they’re not above Maaya. If they’re not, what’s the purpose of worshipping them? (I’m saying it from the perspective of Sikhism, if Hindus believe in that we shouldn’t have any problem with it. It’s their beliefs and ways of worshipping.)
Guru Sahib didn’t include the bani of bhagats to convey the message that they were believing in the worshipping of deities, no. They saw the jot of Waheguru. In Akaal Ustat, Guru Sahib said ‘tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi, tuhi’ to say there’s nothing but One. That’s why the bani starts with Ik Oan(g)kaar.
Sorry, bhaji, I’m writing this big comment again. But it’s necessary. If there’s someone who’s reading your article, he should also read the long comments that you and I have made.
Now you mentioned that vaar. If, I don’t know if you follow Krishan ji or not, will come to that, you read the first line of vaar, it will clear many things. There was NO avatar of Vasudev in Satyug. Vasudev was the name of Krishan’s father, which was in Dvapar, not Satyug. So how the incarnation took place in Satyug?
Bhaji, my one question will clear everything that I want to know from you, but still I want to mention more things. Maybe at last will ask that question.
I don’t know what ‘British Sikhi’ or ‘Indian Sikhi’ is. I know only Sikhi, and not completely, will take so many decades to know everything. But will be trying till last breath. Your this comment, bhaji, is somewhat similar to what Vadakayil is doing. Bringing someone in the topic and then saying this’s their fault. His main hero is Rothschild, as you know. I am not following any British or Indian Sikhi. I am following what’s written. Simple. And I agree with you, bhaji, that no one should hate anyone especially because of their religion and country. I’ve said it several times in my videos and articles. But it doesn’t mean we should not distinguish between the beliefs of others and ours. No hatred is here but there’s a new religion which was started by Guru Nanak Dev ji, the vaar of Bhai Gurdas ji clearly mentioned it.
Now comes the bani of bhagats. Guru Sahib didn’t include the
bani of bhagats to tell that all religions are same, no. Guru Sahib mentioned
it because their verses were falling under the same scenario that Guru Sahib
was preaching. If we want to believe that Bhagat Namdev ji was the follower of
Krishan ji, then Guru Sahib didn’t include his name to tell you ‘Sikhs’ should
follow the same. Following verse from Rehraas Sahib will definitely clear any
misunderstanding.
ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥
ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥
At last comes the historical part. The first thing that all the Sikhs believe in is that if a story is not according to gurbani or teaching something against gurbani, then it’s not true as gurbani is written by the Sikh Gurus but the Sikh history is not (I am talking about the main granths like Suraj Parkash, Panth Parkash, Gurbilas, etc.) The sakhi that you are talking about, I have read it in Janamsakhi, Guru Nanak Parkash and Twarikh Khalsa, and in Mahan Kosh too Bhai Kahn Singh ji Nabha mentioned the name of the pandit. But nowhere, I say again, but nowhere it’s mentioned that Guru Nanak Dev ji was the incarnation of Vishnu. Can you please tell me the name of the book where you got this information? It’s actually against Sikhism to think that the Sikh Guru/s were the incarnation of a mere deity. In Panth Parkash, Giani Gian Singh mentioned the verses of Bhavishya Puran to tell that it’s mentioned that Waheguru Himself will come in the form of Nanak, but there it’s nothing related to Vishnu.
Sorry again as it’s a long comment. 😐
At last I want to ask this one question which will clear everything in my head. Do you listen to/follow Bhai Gurpreet Singh (Rinku Vir Ji Bombay Wale)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuLDdh0ZD0
ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥
ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥
At last comes the historical part. The first thing that all the Sikhs believe in is that if a story is not according to gurbani or teaching something against gurbani, then it’s not true as gurbani is written by the Sikh Gurus but the Sikh history is not (I am talking about the main granths like Suraj Parkash, Panth Parkash, Gurbilas, etc.) The sakhi that you are talking about, I have read it in Janamsakhi, Guru Nanak Parkash and Twarikh Khalsa, and in Mahan Kosh too Bhai Kahn Singh ji Nabha mentioned the name of the pandit. But nowhere, I say again, but nowhere it’s mentioned that Guru Nanak Dev ji was the incarnation of Vishnu. Can you please tell me the name of the book where you got this information? It’s actually against Sikhism to think that the Sikh Guru/s were the incarnation of a mere deity. In Panth Parkash, Giani Gian Singh mentioned the verses of Bhavishya Puran to tell that it’s mentioned that Waheguru Himself will come in the form of Nanak, but there it’s nothing related to Vishnu.
Sorry again as it’s a long comment. 😐
At last I want to ask this one question which will clear everything in my head. Do you listen to/follow Bhai Gurpreet Singh (Rinku Vir Ji Bombay Wale)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuLDdh0ZD0
My response to
him:
Sat Shri Akaal Bhaji (sikhsandsikhi),
It is very good having a conversation with you. Let's see where we go with this, it reminds of something I read
Multiple manuscripts found in Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh, dated to be from the 18th and 19th centuries, contain a theosophical debate between Kabir and Ravidas on the nature of the Absolute, more specifically whether the Brahman (Ultimate Reality, Eternal Truth) is monistic Oneness or a separate anthropomorphic incarnate. Kabir argues for the former. Ravidas, in contrast, argues from the latter premise to the effect that both are one. In these manuscripts, Kabir initially prevails, Ravidas accepts that Brahman is monistic, but towards the end Kabir also accepts that worshipping a divine avatar (sagun conception) is a means to realizing the Oneness and the presence of the divine in everyone, everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravidas
Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave us a treasure trove in the form of Shri Guru Granth Sahib. The above-mentioned verse "Krishan Vishan Kabhu Na Dhiyaon" is from Chaupaee Sahib. It is added to some Rehraas Sahib, but not to all because our scholars are not sure about it genuity.
GuruJis were like a bridge between Hinduism and Islam. While the Islam only believed in Absolute God, Hinduism believed in Trinity (Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva). Guru Ji convinced Islam that when Hindu's believe in Trinity they are believing in the oneness of God, and convinced Hindus that there is Fourth Stage (Absolute GOD) above the Three Stages (Trinity) even though they are a Roop (Avatar) of Absolute GOD. Whoever have a doubt on this Guru Arjan Dev Ji removes the doubt on page 1082 of Shri Guru Granth Sahib
Maaroo Mehalaa 5 ||
Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:
Achuth Paarabreham Paramaesur Antharajaamee || Madhhusoodhan Dhaamodhar Suaamee || Rikheekaes Govaradhhan Dhhaaree Muralee Manohar Har Rangaa ||1|| Mohan Maadhhav Kirasa Muraarae || Jagadheesur Har Jeeo Asur Sanghaarae || Jagadheesur Har Jeeo Asur Sanghaarae ||
Jagajeevan Abinaasee Thaakur Ghatt Ghatt Vaasee Hai Sangaa ||2|| Dhaarraa Agrae Prithham Dhharaaein || Baavan Roop Keeaa Thudhh Karathae Sabh Hee Saethee Hai Changaa ||3|| Sree Raamachandh Jis Roop N Raekhiaa || Banavaalee Chakrapaan Dharas Anoopiaa ||
Sehas Naethr Moorath Hai Sehasaa Eik Dhaathaa Sabh Hai Mangaa ||4|| Bhagath Vashhal Anaathheh Naathhae || Gopee Naathh Sagal Hai Saathhae || Vasudhaev Niranjan Daathae Baran N Saako Gun Angaa ||5|| Mukandh Manohar Lakhamee Naaraaein || Dhropathee Lajaa Nivaar Oudhhaaran ||
Kamalaakanth Karehi Kanthoohal Anadh Binodhee Nihasangaa ||6|| Amogh Dharasan Aajoonee Sanbho || Akaal Moorath Jis Kadhae Naahee Kho || Abinaasee Abigath Agochar Sabh Kishh Thujh Hee Hai Lagaa ||7|| Sreerang Baikunth Kae Vaasee || Mashh Kashh Kooram Aagiaa Aoutharaasee ||Keshav Chalath Karehi Niraalae Keethaa Lorrehi So Hoeigaa ||8|| Niraahaaree Niravair Samaaeiaa || Dhhaar Khael Chathurabhuj Kehaaeiaa || Saaval Sundhar Roop Banaavehi Baen Sunath Sabh Mohaigaa ||9|| Banamaalaa Bibhookhan Kamal Nain || Sundhar Kunddal Mukatt Bain || Sankh Chakr Gadhaa Hai Dhhaaree Mehaa Saarathhee Sathasangaa ||10|| Peeth Peethanbar Thribhavan Dhhanee || Jagannaathh Gopaal Mukh Bhanee || Saaringadhhar Bhagavaan Vithulaa Mai Ganath N Aavai Sarabangaa ||11||
It is very good having a conversation with you. Let's see where we go with this, it reminds of something I read
Multiple manuscripts found in Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh, dated to be from the 18th and 19th centuries, contain a theosophical debate between Kabir and Ravidas on the nature of the Absolute, more specifically whether the Brahman (Ultimate Reality, Eternal Truth) is monistic Oneness or a separate anthropomorphic incarnate. Kabir argues for the former. Ravidas, in contrast, argues from the latter premise to the effect that both are one. In these manuscripts, Kabir initially prevails, Ravidas accepts that Brahman is monistic, but towards the end Kabir also accepts that worshipping a divine avatar (sagun conception) is a means to realizing the Oneness and the presence of the divine in everyone, everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravidas
Guru Arjan Dev Ji gave us a treasure trove in the form of Shri Guru Granth Sahib. The above-mentioned verse "Krishan Vishan Kabhu Na Dhiyaon" is from Chaupaee Sahib. It is added to some Rehraas Sahib, but not to all because our scholars are not sure about it genuity.
GuruJis were like a bridge between Hinduism and Islam. While the Islam only believed in Absolute God, Hinduism believed in Trinity (Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva). Guru Ji convinced Islam that when Hindu's believe in Trinity they are believing in the oneness of God, and convinced Hindus that there is Fourth Stage (Absolute GOD) above the Three Stages (Trinity) even though they are a Roop (Avatar) of Absolute GOD. Whoever have a doubt on this Guru Arjan Dev Ji removes the doubt on page 1082 of Shri Guru Granth Sahib
Maaroo Mehalaa 5 ||
Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:
Achuth Paarabreham Paramaesur Antharajaamee || Madhhusoodhan Dhaamodhar Suaamee || Rikheekaes Govaradhhan Dhhaaree Muralee Manohar Har Rangaa ||1|| Mohan Maadhhav Kirasa Muraarae || Jagadheesur Har Jeeo Asur Sanghaarae || Jagadheesur Har Jeeo Asur Sanghaarae ||
Jagajeevan Abinaasee Thaakur Ghatt Ghatt Vaasee Hai Sangaa ||2|| Dhaarraa Agrae Prithham Dhharaaein || Baavan Roop Keeaa Thudhh Karathae Sabh Hee Saethee Hai Changaa ||3|| Sree Raamachandh Jis Roop N Raekhiaa || Banavaalee Chakrapaan Dharas Anoopiaa ||
Sehas Naethr Moorath Hai Sehasaa Eik Dhaathaa Sabh Hai Mangaa ||4|| Bhagath Vashhal Anaathheh Naathhae || Gopee Naathh Sagal Hai Saathhae || Vasudhaev Niranjan Daathae Baran N Saako Gun Angaa ||5|| Mukandh Manohar Lakhamee Naaraaein || Dhropathee Lajaa Nivaar Oudhhaaran ||
Kamalaakanth Karehi Kanthoohal Anadh Binodhee Nihasangaa ||6|| Amogh Dharasan Aajoonee Sanbho || Akaal Moorath Jis Kadhae Naahee Kho || Abinaasee Abigath Agochar Sabh Kishh Thujh Hee Hai Lagaa ||7|| Sreerang Baikunth Kae Vaasee || Mashh Kashh Kooram Aagiaa Aoutharaasee ||Keshav Chalath Karehi Niraalae Keethaa Lorrehi So Hoeigaa ||8|| Niraahaaree Niravair Samaaeiaa || Dhhaar Khael Chathurabhuj Kehaaeiaa || Saaval Sundhar Roop Banaavehi Baen Sunath Sabh Mohaigaa ||9|| Banamaalaa Bibhookhan Kamal Nain || Sundhar Kunddal Mukatt Bain || Sankh Chakr Gadhaa Hai Dhhaaree Mehaa Saarathhee Sathasangaa ||10|| Peeth Peethanbar Thribhavan Dhhanee || Jagannaathh Gopaal Mukh Bhanee || Saaringadhhar Bhagavaan Vithulaa Mai Ganath N Aavai Sarabangaa ||11||
The Supreme Lord God is imperishable, the Transcendent Lord,
the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. He is the Slayer of demons, our
Supreme Lord and Master. The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs,
the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1||
The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego. The Lord
of the Universe, the Dear Lord, the Destroyer of demons. The Life of the World,
our eternal and ever-stable Lord and Master dwells within each and every heart,
and is always with us. ||2|| The Protector who tears apart demons with His
teeth, the Upholder of the earth. O Creator, You assumed the form of the pygmy
(Vaman) to humble the demons; You are the Lord God of all. ||3|| You are the
Great Raam Chand, who has no form or feature. Adorned with flowers, holding the
chakra in Your hand, Your form is incomparably beautiful. You have thousands of
eyes, and thousands of forms. You alone are the Giver, and all are beggars of
You. ||4|| You are the Lover of Your devotees, the Master of the masterless.
The Lord and Master of the milk-maids, You are the companion of all. O Lord,
Immacuate Great Giver, I cannot describe even an iota of Your Glorious Virtues.
||5|| Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God. Savior of
Dropadi's honor. Lord of Maya, miracle-worker, absorbed in delightful play,
unattached. ||6|| The Blessed Vision of His Darshan is fruitful and rewarding;
He is not born, He is self-existent. His form is undying; it is never
destroyed. O imperishable, eternal, unfathomable Lord, everything is attached
to You. ||7|| The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven. By the Pleasure of
His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise. The Lord of
beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever He wishes, comes to
pass. ||8|| He is beyond need of any sustenance,
free of hate and all-pervading.
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord (Vishnu). He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes. His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful. He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10|| The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds. The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name. The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord (Vishnu). He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes. His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful. He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10|| The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds. The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name. The Archer who draws the bow, the Beloved Lord God; I cannot count all His limbs. ||11||
If you still think that Guru Ji’s did not praised God's
Avatars please read below 2 Sakhis. One Guru Har Rai is giving Darshan to
Bhagat Bhagwan as ChatturBhuj (Lord Vishnu) and the other Guru Gobind Singh
gave darshan to Pandit Shiv Dutt as Lord Rama of Treta Yug. If they were false
Gods, then Guru Har Rai is and Guru Gobind Singh Ji would not have given them
Darshan as Vishnu and Rama. Only a True Vishnu can give Darshan as himself, not
a fake.
https://sikhunity.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/sri-guru-har-rai-sahib-ji-and-bhai-bhagat-bhawan/
https://books.google.com/books?id=6Vo7DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT7&lpg=PT7&dq=guru+gobind+singh+shiv+dutt&source=bl&ots=2mtm14SNrO&sig=MtVrn_sOU2i2j3kLi6ApJJZLc9U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOuJ-B08fcAhVHIDQIHTqUDMU4ChDoATADegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=guru%20gobind%20singh%20shiv%20dutt&f=false
https://sikhunity.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/sri-guru-har-rai-sahib-ji-and-bhai-bhagat-bhawan/
https://books.google.com/books?id=6Vo7DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT7&lpg=PT7&dq=guru+gobind+singh+shiv+dutt&source=bl&ots=2mtm14SNrO&sig=MtVrn_sOU2i2j3kLi6ApJJZLc9U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOuJ-B08fcAhVHIDQIHTqUDMU4ChDoATADegQIAxAB#v=onepage&q=guru%20gobind%20singh%20shiv%20dutt&f=false
Regarding British Sikhi and Vadakayil
I know that Vadakayil is a Rotschild stooge, otherwise he would be taken out and his son would never get a job in a US Corporation.
But he has to some truth and twist that truth and add some lies to it to make it believeable.
I will take you to Udasi's as started by Baba Sri Chand (Guru Nanak Dev Ji's son), Later on Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji gave his son to Udasi Sikh's. when Singhs were fighting the Mughals and later the British it was Udasi's who took care of the Gurudwaras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udasi
During the British and Sikh war after the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh around 1843 Sikhs running out of Ammunition, but British did not knew it and wanted to return after defeat. But it was Dogra sikhs who informed the British and they were able to win the war. After this British plotted on how to destroy Sikhs spiritually, they started to learn Guru Granth Sahib. Interestly the first person they brought was named Trump. he could not interpret Guru Granth Sahib as he was not verly likable person. Next came Max Arthur Macauliffe (Vadakayil's favorite). Slowly the British started plotting and eventually removed all of the Udasi's from the Gurudwaras and brought in their puppets in the form of Singh Sabha. Then slowly made SAD and SGPC to take control of all of the Gurudwaras. To kill a religion it has to be done from within. Here is an example on how a roman catholic church was infiltrated
http://www.huttongibson.com/missionary-effort-why-are-you-not-catholic.php
I know that Vadakayil is a Rotschild stooge, otherwise he would be taken out and his son would never get a job in a US Corporation.
But he has to some truth and twist that truth and add some lies to it to make it believeable.
I will take you to Udasi's as started by Baba Sri Chand (Guru Nanak Dev Ji's son), Later on Guru HarGobind Sahib Ji gave his son to Udasi Sikh's. when Singhs were fighting the Mughals and later the British it was Udasi's who took care of the Gurudwaras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udasi
During the British and Sikh war after the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh around 1843 Sikhs running out of Ammunition, but British did not knew it and wanted to return after defeat. But it was Dogra sikhs who informed the British and they were able to win the war. After this British plotted on how to destroy Sikhs spiritually, they started to learn Guru Granth Sahib. Interestly the first person they brought was named Trump. he could not interpret Guru Granth Sahib as he was not verly likable person. Next came Max Arthur Macauliffe (Vadakayil's favorite). Slowly the British started plotting and eventually removed all of the Udasi's from the Gurudwaras and brought in their puppets in the form of Singh Sabha. Then slowly made SAD and SGPC to take control of all of the Gurudwaras. To kill a religion it has to be done from within. Here is an example on how a roman catholic church was infiltrated
http://www.huttongibson.com/missionary-effort-why-are-you-not-catholic.php
Last, yes I have listened to Bhai Gurpreet Singh. Nanak Naam
Na Visre WAHEGURU WAHEGURU WAHEGURU DHAN HAI
But I know that Katha Vicharak and Ragi Jatha's have to tread a very fine line. They have to be very careful on what they say in public and cannot say. Sant Maskeen Ji was accused of being Brahmanical for mentioning Krishna and Vishnu in his Kathas. Giani Pinderpal Singh was relieved of his duties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewndCo9SXjg
Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala and Bhai Sarabjit Singh Dhooma were involved in Controversy
There was another Hazoori Ragi who mentioned that they have strict guidelines at Harmandir Sahib that one cannot praise Lord Vishnu or Krishna. This is the plight of Sikhi today. It is being destroyed from within.
But I know that Katha Vicharak and Ragi Jatha's have to tread a very fine line. They have to be very careful on what they say in public and cannot say. Sant Maskeen Ji was accused of being Brahmanical for mentioning Krishna and Vishnu in his Kathas. Giani Pinderpal Singh was relieved of his duties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewndCo9SXjg
Sant Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwala and Bhai Sarabjit Singh Dhooma were involved in Controversy
There was another Hazoori Ragi who mentioned that they have strict guidelines at Harmandir Sahib that one cannot praise Lord Vishnu or Krishna. This is the plight of Sikhi today. It is being destroyed from within.
Sikhsandsakhi
responded to my comments
Sat Shri Akaal!
1/2
You mentioned it yourself that Waheguru is in everyone, that’s what I was saying. I’ve this discussion with someone, who was following Hinduism, I guess, on my YouTube channel if Krishan was worshipped in gurbani or not. And eventually he said the same thing that I’ve been saying from the beginning, which is that the jot of Waheguru is worshipped, not a deity. I provided some links in the earlier comment, I do not know if you’ve watched those videos or not. The same shabad that you mentioned later in your comment, I was talking about that in the video.
Anyways, I will not talk about that shabad because it’s been discussed on the YouTube channel and I am planning to write an article too, a long article, on this. Will put the link in the comment section once that’s up on the blog.
Let’s discuss the verses that I gave. Bhaji, the first thing is, the verses ‘main na ganeshe pritham manau’ is not from Chopayi Sahib. I do not know where you read that. Please, bhaji, if we are going to have a discussion here it shouldn’t be something where we are posting some wrong words/stories/meanings to prove our points. You did the same in the vaar of Bhai Gur Das ji too. Here again. I was not expecting that, because if we are writing something it should have a backup, not just trivial paragraphs/words. The verses are from Chobis Avtaar, you talked about this bani in one of your comments. While writing Krishna Avtaar, Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote those verses because Guru Sahib knew that people will take the meaning differently. But when the verses that are written in there will be talked about, the message will be clear, which is that no Sikh Guru worshipped any deity or praised them. It’s the jot of Waheguru which is present everywhere. Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote those verses, and there is no ‘genuine’ scholar who would say that it’s written by someone else. You must read the books, bhaji, because this way of writing articles will lead us to a wrong direction.
Guru Sahib was no bridge between any religion. The preachers who do not have any spiritual life propagate that. I do not know if you have read the books written about Sikhs in the time of British or not, because in there you will find these types of stories that the Guru Sahib just wanted to conciliate/pacify the religions/religious people. They just want to tell only that thing. Not that Guru Nanak Dev ji started a new religion, where only One is worshipped, not the rest. That same thing was mentioned in the video whose link I provided: Does Ram mean Ram Chandra? Guru Sahib shunned the rituals of both Islam and Hinduism that it will take so many pages to complete this part.
And I do not know why you just want to have it till Krishna or Vishnu. You will find so many other names which according to Hinduism are for the deities, but you are not talking about them!? And in Jaap Sahib, Guru Sahib said ‘namo andhkaare’, will you translate it to that the Sikhs worship Devil? Guru Sahib says ‘Namo Soorj Soorje’, does it mean Guru Sahib is worshipping the sun? Seriously?
I know the sakhis that you talked about but it doesn’t convey to me that Guru Sahib was incarnation of Vishnu. If you read gurbani, you will see it clearly that Guru Sahib shunned the deities to that level that you will be shocked to hear. I know a sakhi from the life of Bhagat Namdev ji. Waheguru gave darshan to him in the form of a lion. Does it mean that we should worship lions? And does it mean that Waheguru is an animal because He gave darshan to Bhagat Namdev ji in the form of an animal? Getting what I am trying to say here?
No, Ernest Trumpp was not the first scholar who was a non-Sikh or on the side of British who talked about Sikhi. James Browne was, I guess, the first person who talked about Sikhism back in 1780s in the book named India Tracts. But the first book which was published talking about the Sikhs and its origin and battles was written by John Malcom in ‘Sketch of the Sikhs.’ Macauliffe wrote his books on Sikhism in the earlier 20th century.
1/2
You mentioned it yourself that Waheguru is in everyone, that’s what I was saying. I’ve this discussion with someone, who was following Hinduism, I guess, on my YouTube channel if Krishan was worshipped in gurbani or not. And eventually he said the same thing that I’ve been saying from the beginning, which is that the jot of Waheguru is worshipped, not a deity. I provided some links in the earlier comment, I do not know if you’ve watched those videos or not. The same shabad that you mentioned later in your comment, I was talking about that in the video.
Anyways, I will not talk about that shabad because it’s been discussed on the YouTube channel and I am planning to write an article too, a long article, on this. Will put the link in the comment section once that’s up on the blog.
Let’s discuss the verses that I gave. Bhaji, the first thing is, the verses ‘main na ganeshe pritham manau’ is not from Chopayi Sahib. I do not know where you read that. Please, bhaji, if we are going to have a discussion here it shouldn’t be something where we are posting some wrong words/stories/meanings to prove our points. You did the same in the vaar of Bhai Gur Das ji too. Here again. I was not expecting that, because if we are writing something it should have a backup, not just trivial paragraphs/words. The verses are from Chobis Avtaar, you talked about this bani in one of your comments. While writing Krishna Avtaar, Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote those verses because Guru Sahib knew that people will take the meaning differently. But when the verses that are written in there will be talked about, the message will be clear, which is that no Sikh Guru worshipped any deity or praised them. It’s the jot of Waheguru which is present everywhere. Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote those verses, and there is no ‘genuine’ scholar who would say that it’s written by someone else. You must read the books, bhaji, because this way of writing articles will lead us to a wrong direction.
Guru Sahib was no bridge between any religion. The preachers who do not have any spiritual life propagate that. I do not know if you have read the books written about Sikhs in the time of British or not, because in there you will find these types of stories that the Guru Sahib just wanted to conciliate/pacify the religions/religious people. They just want to tell only that thing. Not that Guru Nanak Dev ji started a new religion, where only One is worshipped, not the rest. That same thing was mentioned in the video whose link I provided: Does Ram mean Ram Chandra? Guru Sahib shunned the rituals of both Islam and Hinduism that it will take so many pages to complete this part.
And I do not know why you just want to have it till Krishna or Vishnu. You will find so many other names which according to Hinduism are for the deities, but you are not talking about them!? And in Jaap Sahib, Guru Sahib said ‘namo andhkaare’, will you translate it to that the Sikhs worship Devil? Guru Sahib says ‘Namo Soorj Soorje’, does it mean Guru Sahib is worshipping the sun? Seriously?
I know the sakhis that you talked about but it doesn’t convey to me that Guru Sahib was incarnation of Vishnu. If you read gurbani, you will see it clearly that Guru Sahib shunned the deities to that level that you will be shocked to hear. I know a sakhi from the life of Bhagat Namdev ji. Waheguru gave darshan to him in the form of a lion. Does it mean that we should worship lions? And does it mean that Waheguru is an animal because He gave darshan to Bhagat Namdev ji in the form of an animal? Getting what I am trying to say here?
No, Ernest Trumpp was not the first scholar who was a non-Sikh or on the side of British who talked about Sikhi. James Browne was, I guess, the first person who talked about Sikhism back in 1780s in the book named India Tracts. But the first book which was published talking about the Sikhs and its origin and battles was written by John Malcom in ‘Sketch of the Sikhs.’ Macauliffe wrote his books on Sikhism in the earlier 20th century.
And, sorry to say it, bhaji, but it seems true, you’ve not
read the history of the earlier 20th century also, especially about the Singh
Sabha movement, otherwise you would have known about the sacrifices made by the
Sikhs to take the control back, not to ‘give’ to the British because they
already had the control of the gurudwaras and mahants were doing ill-practices
in there. The recent morcha which was held was in the 1960s at Paunta Sahib.
The ragi who mentioned about it is what the Sikhi is. From your arguments so far, it seems to me that you’re saying there’s no difference between Sikhism and Hinduism/Islam. Sikhs worship Waheguru’s jot which is in everyone, not the deities. Let’s say Guru Sahib is telling to worship a deity, or specifically Krishna/Vishnu, can you please tell why the following verses are saying they are nothing?
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ – ੭੩੫
ਦਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਰਾਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਵਰਤੇ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ@ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਤੇਰਾ ਲਾਇ ਥਕੇ ਬਿਭੂਤਾ – ੭੪੭
ਜਬ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਖਿੰਚਹਿ ਤੂ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਬ ਕੋਈ ਕਰਉ ਦਿਖਾ ਵਖਿਆਨਾ – ੭੯੭
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ@ਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥ ਦੁਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ॥ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥ ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ – ੮੭੫
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਭੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਭੁਗਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸੁਨਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੇਖਤ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੋ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਓਪਤਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਪਰਲਉ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਬਿਆਪਤ ਕਰਤਾ ਅਲਿਪਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਬਕਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਬੂਝਤ ਕਰਤਾ ॥
ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਮਾਨਸੁ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਦੇਉ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜਤੀ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਸੇਉ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਅਵਧੂਤਾ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਇ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਪੂਤਾ ॥੧॥ – ੮੭੧
ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਜਿੰਨਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ – ੧੨੯
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਰਿਖੀ ਮੁਨੀ ਸੰਕਰੁ ਇੰਦੁ ਤਪੈ ਭੇਖਾਰੀ ॥ ਮਾਨੈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸੋਹੈ ਦਰਿ ਸਾਚੈ ਆਕੀ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਫਾਰੀ ॥ – ੯੯੨
ਸੰਕਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਦੇਵੀ ਜਪਿਓ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਭੀਨਾ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਇਆ ॥੨॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਤੇਤੀਸ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੇਵਿਐ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ – ੧੧੭੪
ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਵਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥
ਤੈਥੋ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵਰਾਯੰ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥
ਕਹੋ ਮਿਸ੍ਰ ਆਗੇ ਕਹਾਂ ਜ੍ਵਾਬ ਦੈਹੋ ॥ ਜਬੈ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਜਾਲ ਮੈ ਫਾਂਸਿ ਜੈਹੋ ॥ ਕਹੋ ਕੌਨ ਸੋ ਪਾਠ ਕੈਹੋ ਤਹਾ ਹੀ ॥ ਤਊ ਲਿੰਗ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੌਗੇ ਉਹਾ ਹੀ ॥੮੪॥ ਤਹਾ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਐ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਐ ਹੈ ॥ ਜਹਾ ਬਾਧਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਤੋ ਕੌ ਚਲੇ ਹੈ ॥ ਕਿਧੌ ਆਨਿ ਕੈ ਰਾਮ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ ਜਹਾ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮਾਤਾ ਨ ਤਾਤਾ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੮੫॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਜੂ ਕੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੀਸ ਨÎੈਯੈ ॥ ਪੁਰੀ ਚੌਦਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਤ੍ਰਸੈਯੈ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਆਨਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸਭੈ ਜੀਵ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਲੋਕ ਖÎਾਤਾ ਬਿਧਾਤਾ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥੮੬॥
ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨÎੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨÎੋ ॥
ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈ ॥
Will you say, bhaji, that it’s also not ‘genuine’ according to the 'scholars'? And can you please also tell where you are the getting the information from before writing any article? Do you listen to some kathavachaaks/raagis? Google it? Or you heard someone say but didn’t read in gurbani/history?
The ragi who mentioned about it is what the Sikhi is. From your arguments so far, it seems to me that you’re saying there’s no difference between Sikhism and Hinduism/Islam. Sikhs worship Waheguru’s jot which is in everyone, not the deities. Let’s say Guru Sahib is telling to worship a deity, or specifically Krishna/Vishnu, can you please tell why the following verses are saying they are nothing?
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ – ੭੩੫
ਦਸ ਅਉਤਾਰ ਰਾਜੇ ਹੋਇ ਵਰਤੇ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਉਧੂਤਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ@ ਭੀ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਤੇਰਾ ਲਾਇ ਥਕੇ ਬਿਭੂਤਾ – ੭੪੭
ਜਬ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਖਿੰਚਹਿ ਤੂ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਬ ਕੋਈ ਕਰਉ ਦਿਖਾ ਵਖਿਆਨਾ – ੭੯੭
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ@ਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥ ਦੁਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ॥ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥ ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ – ੮੭੫
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਭੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭੁ ਭੁਗਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਸੁਨਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੇਖਤ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਅਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੋ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਓਪਤਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਪਰਲਉ ਕਰਤਾ ॥ ਬਿਆਪਤ ਕਰਤਾ ਅਲਿਪਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਬਕਤੋ ਕਰਤਾ ਬੂਝਤ ਕਰਤਾ ॥
ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਮਾਨਸੁ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਦੇਉ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜਤੀ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਸੇਉ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਹੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਾ ਅਵਧੂਤਾ ॥ ਨਾ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਇ ਨ ਕਾਹੂ ਪੂਤਾ ॥੧॥ – ੮੭੧
ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਜਿੰਨਿ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ – ੧੨੯
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਰਿਖੀ ਮੁਨੀ ਸੰਕਰੁ ਇੰਦੁ ਤਪੈ ਭੇਖਾਰੀ ॥ ਮਾਨੈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸੋਹੈ ਦਰਿ ਸਾਚੈ ਆਕੀ ਮਰਹਿ ਅਫਾਰੀ ॥ – ੯੯੨
ਸੰਕਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਦੇਵੀ ਜਪਿਓ ਮੁਖਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿਆ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਨੁ ਭੀਨਾ ਤੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਇਆ ॥੨॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਤੇਤੀਸ ਧਿਆਇਓ ਹਰਿ ਜਪਤਿਆ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
ਏਕੋ ਸੇਵਹੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਸੇਵਿਐ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ – ੧੧੭੪
ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਵਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥
ਤੈਥੋ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵਰਾਯੰ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥
ਕਹੋ ਮਿਸ੍ਰ ਆਗੇ ਕਹਾਂ ਜ੍ਵਾਬ ਦੈਹੋ ॥ ਜਬੈ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਜਾਲ ਮੈ ਫਾਂਸਿ ਜੈਹੋ ॥ ਕਹੋ ਕੌਨ ਸੋ ਪਾਠ ਕੈਹੋ ਤਹਾ ਹੀ ॥ ਤਊ ਲਿੰਗ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੌਗੇ ਉਹਾ ਹੀ ॥੮੪॥ ਤਹਾ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਐ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਐ ਹੈ ॥ ਜਹਾ ਬਾਧਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਾਲ ਤੋ ਕੌ ਚਲੇ ਹੈ ॥ ਕਿਧੌ ਆਨਿ ਕੈ ਰਾਮ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ ਜਹਾ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਮਾਤਾ ਨ ਤਾਤਾ ਨ ਭਾਈ ॥੮੫॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਜੂ ਕੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੀਸ ਨÎੈਯੈ ॥ ਪੁਰੀ ਚੌਦਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਤ੍ਰਸੈਯੈ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਆਨਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸਭੈ ਜੀਵ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਲੋਕ ਖÎਾਤਾ ਬਿਧਾਤਾ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥੮੬॥
ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨÎੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨÎੋ ॥
ਏਕ ਸਿਵ ਭਏ ਏਕ ਗਏ ਏਕ ਫੇਰ ਭਏ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਕੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਅਨੇਕ ਹੈ ॥
Will you say, bhaji, that it’s also not ‘genuine’ according to the 'scholars'? And can you please also tell where you are the getting the information from before writing any article? Do you listen to some kathavachaaks/raagis? Google it? Or you heard someone say but didn’t read in gurbani/history?
I responded
back to him
Sat Shri Akaal Bhaji I am not too sure whether you are
truth seeker or deceiver. I had my doubts when you asked me the following:
"At last I want to ask this one question which will clear everything in my
head. Do you listen to/follow Bhai Gurpreet Singh (Rinku Vir Ji Bombay
Wale)?" Because it does not make a difference to who you listed to or
not.
So my inclination is that you are a DECEIVER.
With all due respect you are questioning me again and again as I am guilty of something and you are a lawyer trying to prove me wrong. I will still go ahead and answer your question for last time and let the readers decide what is right or wrong.
But if you want me to state that GOD’s Avatars were false, I am not going to say that. If I say negative thing against His Avatars, at the same time I am saying bad to formless GOD himself too.
Keep your hatred to yourself. Like Guru Nanak Dev Ji states Basai Raho
First of all let me translate the verses you mentioned so that everyone can read it. Also my comments are in Brackets ()
So my inclination is that you are a DECEIVER.
With all due respect you are questioning me again and again as I am guilty of something and you are a lawyer trying to prove me wrong. I will still go ahead and answer your question for last time and let the readers decide what is right or wrong.
But if you want me to state that GOD’s Avatars were false, I am not going to say that. If I say negative thing against His Avatars, at the same time I am saying bad to formless GOD himself too.
Keep your hatred to yourself. Like Guru Nanak Dev Ji states Basai Raho
First of all let me translate the verses you mentioned so that everyone can read it. Also my comments are in Brackets ()
Brehamaa Bisan Mehaadhaeo Thrai Gun Rogee Vich Houmai Kaar
Kamaaee ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism.
(I am not denying this; Only formless God is without Maya, everyone is within Maya.)
Dhas Aouthaar Raajae Hoe Varathae Mehaadhaev Aoudhhoothaa ||
There were ten regal incarnations of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate.
(Not sure why you put this here, it does not mean 10 Avatars were just kings)
Jab Apunee Joth Khinchehi Thoo Suaamee Thab Koee Karo Dhikhaa Vakhiaanaa ||2||
When You withdraw Your Light, O Lord and Master, then who can speak and teach? ||2||
(Look my comments when everything ends everything will be absorved within the formless God)
Hindhoo Annhaa Thurakoo Kaanaa || Dhuhaan Thae Giaanee Siaanaa || Hindhoo Poojai Dhaehuraa Musalamaan Maseeth || Naamae Soee Saeviaa Jeh Dhaehuraa N Maseeth
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them. The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque. Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque.
(When Naamdev was not allowed into the temple, he said My God is not in the temples or Masjid)
Brehamaa Bisan Mehaadhaeo Thrai Gun Bhulae Houmai Mohu Vadhhaaeiaa ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase.
(Again Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are within Maya)
Sabh Karathaa Sabh Bhugathaa ||1|| Rehaao || Sunatho Karathaa Paekhath Karathaa || Adhrisatto Karathaa Dhrisatto Karathaa || Oupath Karathaa Paralo Karathaa || Biaapath Karathaa Alipatho Karathaa ||1|| Bakatho Karathaa Boojhath Karathaa ||
He is the Creator of all, He is the Enjoyer of all. ||1||Pause|| The Creator listens, and the Creator sees. The Creator is unseen, and the Creator is seen. The Creator forms, and the Creator destroys. The Creator touches, and the Creator is detached. ||1|| The Creator is the One who speaks, and the Creator is the One who understands.
(Nothing different from what I am saying)
Naa Eihu Maanas Naa Eihu Dhaeo || Naa Eihu Jathee Kehaavai Saeo || Naa Eihu Jogee Naa Avadhhoothaa || Naa Eis Maae N Kaahoo Poothaa ||1||
It is not human, and it is not formed God. It is not called celibate, or a worshipper of Shiva. It is not a Yogi, and it is not a hermit. It is not a mother, or anyone's son. ||1||
(You missed one part on this "Eiaa Mandhar Mehi Kaan Basaaee ||" meaning "Then what is it, which dwells in this temple of the body?"
Meaning the formless GOD is within all of us)
Dhaevee Dhaevaa Mool Hai Maaeiaa || Sinmrith Saasath Jinn Oupaaeiaa ||
The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya. For them, the Simritees and the Shaastras were composed.
(Not sure what you mean again everyone is within Maya)
Brehamaa Bisan Rikhee Munee Sankar Eindh Thapai Bhaekhaaree || Maanai Hukam Sohai Dhar Saachai Aakee Marehi Afaaree ||
Brahma and Vishnu, the Rishis and the silent sages, Shiva and Indra, penitents and beggars - whoever obeys the Hukam of the Lord's Command, looks beautiful in the Court of the True Lord, while the stubborn rebels die.
(Everyone is within the control of the Formless God, no different than what I am saying)
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism.
(I am not denying this; Only formless God is without Maya, everyone is within Maya.)
Dhas Aouthaar Raajae Hoe Varathae Mehaadhaev Aoudhhoothaa ||
There were ten regal incarnations of Vishnu; and then there was Shiva, the renunciate.
(Not sure why you put this here, it does not mean 10 Avatars were just kings)
Jab Apunee Joth Khinchehi Thoo Suaamee Thab Koee Karo Dhikhaa Vakhiaanaa ||2||
When You withdraw Your Light, O Lord and Master, then who can speak and teach? ||2||
(Look my comments when everything ends everything will be absorved within the formless God)
Hindhoo Annhaa Thurakoo Kaanaa || Dhuhaan Thae Giaanee Siaanaa || Hindhoo Poojai Dhaehuraa Musalamaan Maseeth || Naamae Soee Saeviaa Jeh Dhaehuraa N Maseeth
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them. The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque. Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque.
(When Naamdev was not allowed into the temple, he said My God is not in the temples or Masjid)
Brehamaa Bisan Mehaadhaeo Thrai Gun Bhulae Houmai Mohu Vadhhaaeiaa ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva wander in the three qualities, while their egotism and desire increase.
(Again Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are within Maya)
Sabh Karathaa Sabh Bhugathaa ||1|| Rehaao || Sunatho Karathaa Paekhath Karathaa || Adhrisatto Karathaa Dhrisatto Karathaa || Oupath Karathaa Paralo Karathaa || Biaapath Karathaa Alipatho Karathaa ||1|| Bakatho Karathaa Boojhath Karathaa ||
He is the Creator of all, He is the Enjoyer of all. ||1||Pause|| The Creator listens, and the Creator sees. The Creator is unseen, and the Creator is seen. The Creator forms, and the Creator destroys. The Creator touches, and the Creator is detached. ||1|| The Creator is the One who speaks, and the Creator is the One who understands.
(Nothing different from what I am saying)
Naa Eihu Maanas Naa Eihu Dhaeo || Naa Eihu Jathee Kehaavai Saeo || Naa Eihu Jogee Naa Avadhhoothaa || Naa Eis Maae N Kaahoo Poothaa ||1||
It is not human, and it is not formed God. It is not called celibate, or a worshipper of Shiva. It is not a Yogi, and it is not a hermit. It is not a mother, or anyone's son. ||1||
(You missed one part on this "Eiaa Mandhar Mehi Kaan Basaaee ||" meaning "Then what is it, which dwells in this temple of the body?"
Meaning the formless GOD is within all of us)
Dhaevee Dhaevaa Mool Hai Maaeiaa || Sinmrith Saasath Jinn Oupaaeiaa ||
The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya. For them, the Simritees and the Shaastras were composed.
(Not sure what you mean again everyone is within Maya)
Brehamaa Bisan Rikhee Munee Sankar Eindh Thapai Bhaekhaaree || Maanai Hukam Sohai Dhar Saachai Aakee Marehi Afaaree ||
Brahma and Vishnu, the Rishis and the silent sages, Shiva and Indra, penitents and beggars - whoever obeys the Hukam of the Lord's Command, looks beautiful in the Court of the True Lord, while the stubborn rebels die.
(Everyone is within the control of the Formless God, no different than what I am saying)
Sankar Brehamai Dhaevee Japiou Mukh Har Har Naam Japiaa ||
Har Har Naam Jinaa Man Bheenaa Thae Guramukh Paar Paeiaa ||2||
Shiva, Brahma and the goddess Lakhshmi, meditate, and chant with their mouths the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Those whose minds are drenched with the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, as Gurmukh, cross over. ||2||
(I never said they don't meditate on the name of God you missed one on this: "Kirasan Balabhadhra Gur Pag Lag Dhhiaavai" Even Krishna and Balbhadar meditated on the Lord, falling at the Guru's Feet. )
Mahaadev Achuta Kahavaayo ॥ Bisan Aapa Hee Ko Tthaharaayo ॥ Barhamaa Aapa Paarabarhama Bakhaanaa ॥ Parbha Ko Parbhoo Na Kinhooaan Jaanaa
Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. Barhamaa Aapa Paarabarhama Bakhaanaa ॥ Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.
(This is from Dasam Granth - not sure what you mean again they all are within the power of Maya)
Taitho Hee Balu Krisan Lai Kaansa Kesee Pakarhi Giraaeiaa ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.
This is from Dasam Granth (Not sure what relevant is this)
Eaeko Saevahu Avar N Koe || Jith Saeviai Sadhaa Sukh Hoe ||
So serve the One Lord, and no other. Serving Him, eternal peace is obtained.
(Not sure where I said anything different, but if you bad mouth HIS Avatars you are bad mouthing God himself).
Jo Chaubeesa Avataara Kahaaee ॥ Tin Bhee Tuma Parbha Tanika Na Paaee ॥ Sabha Hee Jaga Bharme Bhavaraayaan ॥ Taa Te Naam Biaanta Kahaayaan ॥7॥
Those who are called twenty-four incarnations O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure They became kings of the world and got deluded Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7.
(From Dasam Granth - Even Vedas say the same thing too, Brahma went to look for God, but could not find HIS end. Vishnu and Shiva could not figure out who is bigger from both)
Kaho Misar Aage Kahaan Javaaba Daiho ॥ Jabai Kaal Ke Jaala Mai Phaansi Jaiho ॥ Kaho Kouna So Paattha Kaiho Tahaa Hee ॥ Taoo Liaanga Poojaa Karouge Auhaa Hee ॥84॥ Tahaa Rudar Aai Hai Ki Sree Krisan Aai Hai ॥ Jahaa Baadhi Sree Kaal To Kou Chale Hai ॥ Kidhou Aani Kai Raam Havai Hai Sahaaeee ॥ Jahaa Putar Maataa Na Taataa Na Bhaaeee ॥85॥ Mahaa Kaal Joo Ko Sadaa Seesa Naiaiyai ॥ Puree Choudahooaan Taraasa Jaa Ko Tarsaiyai ॥ Sadaa Aani Jaa Kee Sabhai Jeeva Maani ॥ Sabhai Loka Khiaataa Bidhaataa Pachhaani ॥86॥
(again from Dasam Granth stating no one is above formless God; nothing different from what I am saying)
Eeka Siva Bhaee Eeka Gaee Eeka Phera Bhaee Raamchaandar Krisan Ke Avataara Bhee Aneka Hai ॥
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
(Again from Dasam Granth - again in Vedas it states there are many different Brahmas, but it does not mention Shiva who passed away. If there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna, then why it is not mentioned in Dasam Granth just as Avatars of Brahma and Shiva).
(Here is a line from Dasam Granth: "Suneeahu Saanta Sabai Chita Laaeee, Barnta Saiaam Jathaamti Bhaaeee" meaning: "O saints listen to it attentively. The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing". Here is where the scholars are asking why does Guru Gobind Singh Ji have to call himself Poet Shyam).
Shiva, Brahma and the goddess Lakhshmi, meditate, and chant with their mouths the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. Those whose minds are drenched with the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, as Gurmukh, cross over. ||2||
(I never said they don't meditate on the name of God you missed one on this: "Kirasan Balabhadhra Gur Pag Lag Dhhiaavai" Even Krishna and Balbhadar meditated on the Lord, falling at the Guru's Feet. )
Mahaadev Achuta Kahavaayo ॥ Bisan Aapa Hee Ko Tthaharaayo ॥ Barhamaa Aapa Paarabarhama Bakhaanaa ॥ Parbha Ko Parbhoo Na Kinhooaan Jaanaa
Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. Barhamaa Aapa Paarabarhama Bakhaanaa ॥ Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.
(This is from Dasam Granth - not sure what you mean again they all are within the power of Maya)
Taitho Hee Balu Krisan Lai Kaansa Kesee Pakarhi Giraaeiaa ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.
This is from Dasam Granth (Not sure what relevant is this)
Eaeko Saevahu Avar N Koe || Jith Saeviai Sadhaa Sukh Hoe ||
So serve the One Lord, and no other. Serving Him, eternal peace is obtained.
(Not sure where I said anything different, but if you bad mouth HIS Avatars you are bad mouthing God himself).
Jo Chaubeesa Avataara Kahaaee ॥ Tin Bhee Tuma Parbha Tanika Na Paaee ॥ Sabha Hee Jaga Bharme Bhavaraayaan ॥ Taa Te Naam Biaanta Kahaayaan ॥7॥
Those who are called twenty-four incarnations O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure They became kings of the world and got deluded Therefore they were called by innumerable names.7.
(From Dasam Granth - Even Vedas say the same thing too, Brahma went to look for God, but could not find HIS end. Vishnu and Shiva could not figure out who is bigger from both)
Kaho Misar Aage Kahaan Javaaba Daiho ॥ Jabai Kaal Ke Jaala Mai Phaansi Jaiho ॥ Kaho Kouna So Paattha Kaiho Tahaa Hee ॥ Taoo Liaanga Poojaa Karouge Auhaa Hee ॥84॥ Tahaa Rudar Aai Hai Ki Sree Krisan Aai Hai ॥ Jahaa Baadhi Sree Kaal To Kou Chale Hai ॥ Kidhou Aani Kai Raam Havai Hai Sahaaeee ॥ Jahaa Putar Maataa Na Taataa Na Bhaaeee ॥85॥ Mahaa Kaal Joo Ko Sadaa Seesa Naiaiyai ॥ Puree Choudahooaan Taraasa Jaa Ko Tarsaiyai ॥ Sadaa Aani Jaa Kee Sabhai Jeeva Maani ॥ Sabhai Loka Khiaataa Bidhaataa Pachhaani ॥86॥
(again from Dasam Granth stating no one is above formless God; nothing different from what I am saying)
Eeka Siva Bhaee Eeka Gaee Eeka Phera Bhaee Raamchaandar Krisan Ke Avataara Bhee Aneka Hai ॥
There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.
(Again from Dasam Granth - again in Vedas it states there are many different Brahmas, but it does not mention Shiva who passed away. If there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna, then why it is not mentioned in Dasam Granth just as Avatars of Brahma and Shiva).
(Here is a line from Dasam Granth: "Suneeahu Saanta Sabai Chita Laaeee, Barnta Saiaam Jathaamti Bhaaeee" meaning: "O saints listen to it attentively. The poet Shyam is narrating it according or his own under-standing". Here is where the scholars are asking why does Guru Gobind Singh Ji have to call himself Poet Shyam).
Then you mention the following: Let’s discuss the verses
that I gave. Bhaji, the first thing is, the verses ‘main na ganeshe pritham
manau’ is not from Chopayi Sahib. I do not know where you read that. Please,
bhaji, if we are going to have a discussion here it shouldn’t be something
where we are posting some wrong words/stories/meanings to prove our points. You
did the same in the vaar of Bhai Gur Das ji too.
what difference does it make. It is from Dasam Granth, but added to the Chaupai Sahib in the Rehraas Sahib. That is why most Rehraas Sahib does not contain it.
what difference does it make. It is from Dasam Granth, but added to the Chaupai Sahib in the Rehraas Sahib. That is why most Rehraas Sahib does not contain it.
Looks like when you put some verses to prove me wrong
either you intentionally or unintentionally left out the following
Brehamaa Bisan Mehaes Eik Moorath Aapae Karathaa Kaaree
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Pg. 908
Same thing I have said before. They are HIS Avatar, the formless GOD'a Avatar. If you say negative things against his Avatars, you are saying negative thing about the formless GOD himself as there is no difference between GOD and his Avatars.
Brehamaa Bisan Mehaes Eik Moorath Aapae Karathaa Kaaree
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Pg. 908
Same thing I have said before. They are HIS Avatar, the formless GOD'a Avatar. If you say negative things against his Avatars, you are saying negative thing about the formless GOD himself as there is no difference between GOD and his Avatars.
You mentioned the followig:
And, sorry to say it, bhaji, but it seems true, you’ve not read the history of the earlier 20th century also, especially about the Singh Sabha movement, otherwise you would have known about the sacrifices made by the Sikhs to take the control back, not to ‘give’ to the British because they already had the control of the gurudwaras and mahants were doing ill-practices in there.
Have you seen them doing ill-practices in the Gurudwaras. Have you heard of False Flags and Hegelian Dialects?
When the whole control of India was with the British, Do you really think they would let people to gather and take control of the Gurudwaras. Do you think India is really an independent country, being a part of Commonwealth Country? If it is independent why did Modi along with prime ministers of other commonwealth countries went to England to meet his new boss Prince Charles when the queen passed the charge to her son.
And, sorry to say it, bhaji, but it seems true, you’ve not read the history of the earlier 20th century also, especially about the Singh Sabha movement, otherwise you would have known about the sacrifices made by the Sikhs to take the control back, not to ‘give’ to the British because they already had the control of the gurudwaras and mahants were doing ill-practices in there.
Have you seen them doing ill-practices in the Gurudwaras. Have you heard of False Flags and Hegelian Dialects?
When the whole control of India was with the British, Do you really think they would let people to gather and take control of the Gurudwaras. Do you think India is really an independent country, being a part of Commonwealth Country? If it is independent why did Modi along with prime ministers of other commonwealth countries went to England to meet his new boss Prince Charles when the queen passed the charge to her son.
Last Guru Nanak Dev Ji never created any religion. Go back
to history all religions were created by man after their messiah's death.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji wanted to bring everyone back to the path of Truth
Guru Arjan Dev Ji stated "Ek pita ekas ke hum barik" (There is one father and we are HIS children)
Guru Gobind Singh Ji stated "Manas ki jaat sabhe ek pehchan bo" (There is only one caste of Humans)
Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa which was like an Army. Just like in Indian Army there are people of all religion, Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsas were both Hindus and Muslims. Just like an Army has an uniform and title. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us uniform and title.
Religions are created to divide and control people. Use your logic did all of Gurus wanted to Unite people or further divide them.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji wanted to bring everyone back to the path of Truth
Guru Arjan Dev Ji stated "Ek pita ekas ke hum barik" (There is one father and we are HIS children)
Guru Gobind Singh Ji stated "Manas ki jaat sabhe ek pehchan bo" (There is only one caste of Humans)
Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa which was like an Army. Just like in Indian Army there are people of all religion, Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsas were both Hindus and Muslims. Just like an Army has an uniform and title. Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us uniform and title.
Religions are created to divide and control people. Use your logic did all of Gurus wanted to Unite people or further divide them.
Let's say if Guru Nanak Dev Ji started a new religion where
One is worshipped and not other, then he could have easily told everyone to
become Muslims since they worship the Absolute God.
One more answer to this quote of yours
You mentioned it yourself that Waheguru is in everyone, that’s what I was saying. I’ve this discussion with someone, who was following Hinduism, I guess, on my YouTube channel if Krishan was worshipped in gurbani or not. And eventually he said the same thing that I’ve been saying from the beginning, which is that the jot of Waheguru is worshipped, not a deity.
So you are saying that it was not Krishna that was not worshipped, but the Jot of Waheguru which was in him. In that respect than everyone should be worshipped since his Jot is in everyone. Why even mention Krishna or Vishnu in Shri Guru Granth Sahib.
You mentioned it yourself that Waheguru is in everyone, that’s what I was saying. I’ve this discussion with someone, who was following Hinduism, I guess, on my YouTube channel if Krishan was worshipped in gurbani or not. And eventually he said the same thing that I’ve been saying from the beginning, which is that the jot of Waheguru is worshipped, not a deity.
So you are saying that it was not Krishna that was not worshipped, but the Jot of Waheguru which was in him. In that respect than everyone should be worshipped since his Jot is in everyone. Why even mention Krishna or Vishnu in Shri Guru Granth Sahib.
I also called him a Communist “Sikh” which I should not
have done.
Sikhsandsikhi responded
Well, if you have accused me of a communist 'Sikh' then I
do not see that this conversation will go somewhere. Anyways, I will write the
article with answers to your small questions there and post the link here in
future.
Best of luck with your 'exposing'!
Best of luck with your 'exposing'!
I responded
back to him
@SikhsandSikhi
Bhaji i apologize that I used communist "Sikh" as a word and have deleted it. That was too harsh of a word, but at the same time it was not a conversation between us. It was you accusing me and I was defending myself. If our views don't match doesn't mean I am distroting Gurbani. I don't tolerate that. I will give you a summary of my views and summary of your views let me know if I am wrong somewhere in your views.
We both know that GOD is a silent witness and pray to him that if I am wrong give me guidance and show me the truth and if you are wrong to give you a guidance and show you the truth
Bhaji i apologize that I used communist "Sikh" as a word and have deleted it. That was too harsh of a word, but at the same time it was not a conversation between us. It was you accusing me and I was defending myself. If our views don't match doesn't mean I am distroting Gurbani. I don't tolerate that. I will give you a summary of my views and summary of your views let me know if I am wrong somewhere in your views.
We both know that GOD is a silent witness and pray to him that if I am wrong give me guidance and show me the truth and if you are wrong to give you a guidance and show you the truth
My Views
1. There is only One formless God who is all mighty and all doer
2. He has 24 Avatars (including Guru Nanak Dev Ji) who have extra ordinary powers which a mere human does not have even though we all have his Jot in us. Even though Formless GOD is the most powerful, we still have to acknowledge HIS Avatars too who had powers such as 14 kala, 16 kala, sarb kala. In Vaar 1 Pauri 4 Bhai Gurdas Ji states: “And then in one universe He comes in tens of forms.”
1. There is only One formless God who is all mighty and all doer
2. He has 24 Avatars (including Guru Nanak Dev Ji) who have extra ordinary powers which a mere human does not have even though we all have his Jot in us. Even though Formless GOD is the most powerful, we still have to acknowledge HIS Avatars too who had powers such as 14 kala, 16 kala, sarb kala. In Vaar 1 Pauri 4 Bhai Gurdas Ji states: “And then in one universe He comes in tens of forms.”
3. The Avatars of Formless Godless (Nirgun) where/are
Brahmgyanis (Sargun). For me and also I
think for Guru Jis there were no difference between Brahmgyanis and Paarbrahm
(GOD) like what Guru Arjan Dev Ji wrote in Sukhmani Sahib.
3. When Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions Sawaal Sundar (Dark Complexioned Beautiful), Charan Kamal (Lotus Feet) and Chatturbhuj (4 handed), Sundar Than (beautiful Body), Kaval Nain (Lotus Eyes), Keshav (beautiful hair) and examples in Maroo Mehala 5 pg. 1082; it is not describing the formless GOD, but his Avatars since the formless GOD does not have Feet, Eyes, Hand, Hair or Body. Again for Guru Jis there was no difference between Nirgun and Sargun. Guru Arjan Dev Ji states “HE is Nirgun (formless), HE is Sargun (Formed)
4. When Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions Raam, Gopal, Govind, Keshav it is mentioning the formless GOD by his names when HE came as Avatar on Earth. But at some places it is directly mentioning those Avatars also; like Krishna, Vishnu, and Ram. Otherwise it is a cause of confusion and Guru Ji's bani does not have any confusion in it. Confusion only comes due to Prejudice.
5. Guru Nanak Dev Ji and all of the GURUs were against Religion, because they talked about one and the unity of mankind. Buddhism and Sikhism are the creation of British to divide and rule.
6. Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa (Akaalpurak ki Fauj) meaning GOD's Army not a religion.
7. British distorted Indian History (But not as described by Ajit Vadakayil) and put their puppets as heads of Gurudwaras, Mandirs, groups such as RSS, Politics and other places and created divisions.
Your Views
1. There is only One Formless GOD who is all mighty and all doer
2. There were no 24 Avatars of HIS
3. The ten Avatars mentioned were only mere Kings of their time (I am asking this: Although only 5 took birth including Guru Nanak Dev Ji or 4 according to you and from them only 2 were kings Rama and Buddha.)
4. All the Avatars along with Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji were just mere human beings and they did all those extra ordinary deeds because Formless GOD's JOT (light) was in them and we cannot do them because we do not have GOD’s JOT (light)???
5. It was Okay for Guru Har Rai to give darshan to Bhagat Bhagwan as Lord Vishnu and Guru Gobind Singh Ji to give darshan to Pandit Shiv Dutt as Lord Ram, but that does not mean they are the Avatars of Lord Vishnu. (So I guess it was okay to do fraud, if it is done by Guru Sahibs???)
6. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started a new religion (to divide people further so fighting will never end? Before Hindu Muslims and afterwards Hindu Muslims and Sikhs; you are again wrong again on this because when Guru Teg Bahadur Ji went to meet Aurangzeb at time there was only 2 religions and Aurangzeb wanted to have just 1 religion and Guru Ji stated you want only one religion, there is going to be third religion. And we know that British and Christian Missionaries started to gain foothold in India.)
7. British did not distort Sikh History, Sikhs were able to fight British and did not let them infiltrate Gurudwaras and corrupt Sikh Leaders and Politicians.
3. When Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions Sawaal Sundar (Dark Complexioned Beautiful), Charan Kamal (Lotus Feet) and Chatturbhuj (4 handed), Sundar Than (beautiful Body), Kaval Nain (Lotus Eyes), Keshav (beautiful hair) and examples in Maroo Mehala 5 pg. 1082; it is not describing the formless GOD, but his Avatars since the formless GOD does not have Feet, Eyes, Hand, Hair or Body. Again for Guru Jis there was no difference between Nirgun and Sargun. Guru Arjan Dev Ji states “HE is Nirgun (formless), HE is Sargun (Formed)
4. When Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions Raam, Gopal, Govind, Keshav it is mentioning the formless GOD by his names when HE came as Avatar on Earth. But at some places it is directly mentioning those Avatars also; like Krishna, Vishnu, and Ram. Otherwise it is a cause of confusion and Guru Ji's bani does not have any confusion in it. Confusion only comes due to Prejudice.
5. Guru Nanak Dev Ji and all of the GURUs were against Religion, because they talked about one and the unity of mankind. Buddhism and Sikhism are the creation of British to divide and rule.
6. Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Khalsa (Akaalpurak ki Fauj) meaning GOD's Army not a religion.
7. British distorted Indian History (But not as described by Ajit Vadakayil) and put their puppets as heads of Gurudwaras, Mandirs, groups such as RSS, Politics and other places and created divisions.
Your Views
1. There is only One Formless GOD who is all mighty and all doer
2. There were no 24 Avatars of HIS
3. The ten Avatars mentioned were only mere Kings of their time (I am asking this: Although only 5 took birth including Guru Nanak Dev Ji or 4 according to you and from them only 2 were kings Rama and Buddha.)
4. All the Avatars along with Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji were just mere human beings and they did all those extra ordinary deeds because Formless GOD's JOT (light) was in them and we cannot do them because we do not have GOD’s JOT (light)???
5. It was Okay for Guru Har Rai to give darshan to Bhagat Bhagwan as Lord Vishnu and Guru Gobind Singh Ji to give darshan to Pandit Shiv Dutt as Lord Ram, but that does not mean they are the Avatars of Lord Vishnu. (So I guess it was okay to do fraud, if it is done by Guru Sahibs???)
6. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started a new religion (to divide people further so fighting will never end? Before Hindu Muslims and afterwards Hindu Muslims and Sikhs; you are again wrong again on this because when Guru Teg Bahadur Ji went to meet Aurangzeb at time there was only 2 religions and Aurangzeb wanted to have just 1 religion and Guru Ji stated you want only one religion, there is going to be third religion. And we know that British and Christian Missionaries started to gain foothold in India.)
7. British did not distort Sikh History, Sikhs were able to fight British and did not let them infiltrate Gurudwaras and corrupt Sikh Leaders and Politicians.
When I went to his channel, he was saying negative stuff about some Katha Vachak Baljeet Singh Delhi. I responded to him
Bhaji please do not attack people based on
their views. Look at the dislikes you are getting and learn from it. You came
to my blog and accused me of distorting bani http://exposingvadakayil.blogspot.com/2018/07/danav-ajit-vadakayil-lies-about-vithal.html And I see that you have attacked this person Baljeet Singh Delhi, not related to me only same name. I told you it is not easy to be Katha Vachik in Sikhi today, they have to Tread a Fine Line on what to say and what not to say because of fundamental people like you are waiting to attack on the first instance you receive.
Guru Arjan Dev Ji mentions in Sukhmani Sahib
aapas ka-o jo bhalaa kahaavai. One who callshimself good
tiseh bhalaa-ee nikat na aavai. - goodness shall not draw near him.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Hey! This channel was not started to gain
likes/subs or to make money from YouTube. That was never my intention. I
actually never care about the likes, but I leave the rating and comment section
open so that people can have their opinions too. If Katha Vachaks are trying to
bend the history/gurbani for their own benefits, then it's to be shown why they
are wrong. Gurbani cannot be misused for their own reasons. Denying all the
incidents of history and changing the meanings of gurbani is against Sikhi.
Back in 1920s Bhasauriyeee did the same, and then Kaala Afghana and Darshan
Singh. These days we have Dhadriyawaala and Baljeet (not you but this one in video)
and Sarbjit Dhunda. They are taking Sikhi into a different direction. Wherever
Panth is not ready to accept their views, I will write and make videos about
it. And all these dislikes ... they are from two types of people, those who
follow Kaala Afghana and Darshu, and their followers; second those who are
saying that there was no difference between Sikhism and Islam/Hinduism. And I
am okay with the dislikes too. :)
On one of his another videos to twist Gurbani, whether Krishan Ji is mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib, I mentioned the following:
Bhaji it is good to expose people if they are saying things which are blatant and intentional lie. I watched the video of Baljeet Singh Delhi and your rebuttal and I did not see anywhere where he is blatantly lying and intentionally trying to mislead people. Like I said Sant Maskeen Ji was accused of this too, but if you listen to him there is nothing misleading in his kathas.
And as far as I am concerned it is not only me, but a lot of our scholars also have concerns about what parts in Dasam Granth is correct and which is not, because the original bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji got dispersed in Sirsa River and not all of pages were able to be recovered. Then Guru Gobind Singh Ji using his name as Poets Shyam, Raam and Kaal.
Let's say Dasam Granth is 100 percent accurate and I know that you are
picking up things from Dasam Granth like when you say it is not Krishan Ji that
is worshipped it is the JOT (light) within Krishan Ji of WAHEGURU that is worshipped.
Krishan Ji came with WAHEGURU’S power - 16 kala, that is why he was able to do
what he did. I challenge you to do even 1/10th of what Krishna Ji has done
since you have the same JOT (light) within you too.
He was able to pick up a mountain, let’s see if you can pick up a small
hill. He was able to dive in the river
at a young age and put a ring around the nose of Kalia Snake, let’s see if you
can put a ring around a nose of a shark or a crocodile or let’s make it even
easier a ring around a Cobra.
With due respect I know that WAHEGURU is the ultimate the one we should worship, but at the same time we cannot ignore or say bad things about HIS Avatars too or write them off as they were nothing.
On page 998 of Guru Granth Sahib is written the following, then would you say this is wrong too.
Dhhan Dhhann Ou Raam Baen Baajai || Madhhur Madhhur Dhhun Anehath
Gaajai ||1|| Dhhan Dhhan Maeghaa Romaavalee || Dhhan Dhhan Kirasan Oudtai
Kaanbalee ||1|| Dhhan Dhhan Thoo Maathaa Dhaevakee || Jih Grih Rameeaa
Kavalaapathee ||2||
Blessed, blessed is that flute which the Lord plays. The sweet, sweet unstruck sound current sings
forth. Blessed, blessed is the wool of
the sheep; Blessed, blessed is the blanket worn by Krishna. Blessed, blessed
are you, O mother Dayvakee; Into your home the Lord was born.
Sikhsandsikhi did not respond to my message, but conveniently hid the messages so that only I can see it and no one else can see it.
Only reason a person hides something is because he does not want anyone to see.
And he posted thisWe are also writing the posts about it on our blog. Baljit Singh from exposingvadakayil has also posted his views in one of the comments, please check his opinions too and I have mentioned his post's link in the post about this topic too. https://sikhsandsikhi.blogspot.com/2018/08/praises-of-krishna-in-gurbani.html
Where he is using the same weak arguments that the Avatars were born under Maya and I do not get this point of View.
There are a lot of people with Sikhsandsikhi person viewpoint and I appeal to them to learn Guru Granth Sahib, Read Sakhis (stories) of Guru Sahibs, Read Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaaran without any bias or prejudice against any religion and then make your own decisions. Don't follow others, there are a lot of people who are ready to mislead you. That is why this person kept asking me what Katha Vachaks/ragis do I listen to because he is being misled into wrong direction by those people.
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